January 12th, 2006
Who can sing Rufus’s songs? (Part 2)
The previous posting seems to have garnered a flurry of responses on two of the RW bulletin boards: rutopia and rw.com.
I post their responses here.
A technique I use in teaching music theory from time to time, is after I’ve lectured for a while, I’ll stop, and with a straight face, draw a false conclusion to see who is actually listening:
“Soooo, two plus two is seven” and then go on. The students who are listening, interrupt me and say “hey, wait a minute.” Although my last post wasn’t exactly an example of this technique, the final line was calculated to provoke, and it did. It achieved exactly what I wanted, which was to hear a variety of opinions on who can sing Rufus’s songs. Read the comments on the previous posting as well as the ones here to see the range of responses people made. I will insert my own responses to them in the comments section.
January 10th, 2006 at 11:03 am
I’m a gay man myself, but I have had some experience with my female friends talking about love and their views on love and men and I don’t really see the way Rufus expresses himself in those lyrics as a problem for women. But even if I probably have more experience of talking about such thing with women than the average straight man, I’m still not a woman myself, so I would be very interested in their views.
January 10th, 2006 at 3:54 pm
Dear Prof Berlioz,
Here’s what I think…
I think these songs could work for both sexes…
Agnus Dei (strong pipes only)
In A Graveyard
The Tower Of Learning
These could work for women, but it would have to be someone very chameleon-like
with lots of attitude and a strong, smoky, jazzy voice…
Peach Trees
Baby
Evil Angel
Pretty Things
Harvester of Hearts
Vicious World
The Money Song
The Art Teacher
A few of the upbeat ones could be done by bands with mixed sexes…
I Don’t Know What It Is
The One You Love
Beautiful Child
I probably have missed some…
Any others are for gay men only.
No one should cover Natasha, Little Sister, Beauty Mark, Gay Messiah, Dinner at Eight or Poses.
Those belong to Rufus.
No matter who sings these, Rufus’ songs are extremely hard to cover.
He is so special that without him doing the singing, they could wind up sounding incredibly cheesy.
Only my opinion…
January 10th, 2006 at 8:16 pm
Don’t you think that would be a problem for Rufus in the future if nobody covers his songs ?
He will miss a lot of money (copyrights) and fame (?) if noone dares to cover him.
It’s a hommage to you as a songwriter if other artists covers your songs (even though we may not like what we hear)
And what about Angela that made the performance in New York recently ? Do you know which songs she covered?
January 11th, 2006 at 1:05 am
Without meaning to offend, i think this is utter rubbish. I love what you are doing with your book and am behind you all the way, but you’re comments appear very biased and rather misinformed.
I am a hetrosexual man and many of Rufus’ songs speak to me directly. If they don’t speak to me lyrically then they speak to melodically. Rufus sings in a rather operatic style similar to the style of a Broadway musical, or even a popular singer from the 30’s/40’s. Now although there is the cliche that all gay men love Broadway and musicals (utter tosh, i have many gay friends who like punk, jazz, country/western and can’t stand musicals), that style of singing and performing is a universal style (in fact isn’t all singing universal?) and therefore ANYONE should feel comfortable singing his music.
Rufus is not a niche artist and is popluar across all sexes and cultures because he is a true artist/songwriter that appeals across the board. If his music was too specific or difficult to connect to he would be stuck playing underground New York gay clubs!
January 11th, 2006 at 1:07 am
Well, what a clever way to generate posts, for sure. I’m assuming your statement doesn’t really mean you are sexist, but is just a professorial device to get people charged up, thinking and debating. Stuff like this may be where the Rufus community is a great asset to these discussions.
Reading what’s posted there, the answers are so profound and succint, I’m not so sure the thunder isn’t already out of this controversy.
I can hear Courtney Love, Tori or Madonna singing “Between My Legs”. How about Cher or Barbara Streisand singing Old Whore’s Diet??
Gay Messiah might be the only one a straight man could have trouble with. If Kurt Cobain was alive, he may have had a go at that one anyway!!
I have no idea why Poses couldn’t be sang by anyone with whom it resonated. ?????
The fact Rufus is a gay songwriter doesn’t imply that he writes gay songs. Sheesh. Pansy Division is your band if you’re wanting those!!!!!
January 11th, 2006 at 4:43 am
Broadly speaking, I think that there are many instances where you could simply do a gender pronouns switch and obtain something that works. But more often than not, you would have an imperfect result, because the thinking process, the qualities of the relationships described songs are rather masculine. Nothing big or impossible or exclusive, but still, a masculine impression in there.
I especially remember my first listenings of the eponymous debut. To me, it was a completely exotic experience because all of a sudden, I was going inside the mind of a man and getting to know all his feelings. Man + feelings… After so many syrupous “Ooooh I love u Babee!”, that was so fresh and exciting. The gay perspective in those songs was also new, but I don’t think that it was the most distinctive aspect of Rufus’s work. It was more to me about being flood with this extreme and honest romanticism, the expressions of desire, the thirst for love and recognition, the close observations made about the loved ones, the unique situations depicted.
But even then, I don’t find it a problem to project myself into those songs and make them mine.
January 11th, 2006 at 5:15 am
I see what you’re saying Gershwin, but Berlioz wasn’t talking about *liking* Rufus’ music, he was talking about the technicalities of singing his songs! I’d have to agree with him on the most, as the vast majority of his songs are extemely difficult to sing, and successfully carry off (I deteste Keane’s cover of Dinner at Eight…it is RUFUS’ song!) Generally, I’d have thought if I had to pinpoint a *type* of singer who would be able to, it would have to be a gay singer, with a VERY big note range, that’s in terms of lyrical content and musical content. I don’t think that’s typecasting, I think it’s just how it is!
January 11th, 2006 at 5:21 am
Both women and men can sing from perspectives other than their own.
This bothers me in much the same way as the idea that there is a “masculine novel” and a “feminine novel.” The concept there is that female novelists (Austen for example) can’t write a truly successful traditional novel because they lack the “masculine thrust.” At the same time, men couldn’t write the “feminine novel.” The really funny thing is that the best example of a “feminine novel” the theorists could come up with was Ulysses . . . written by a man, of course. The dangers of placing too much emphasis on gender right there. Very Happy What I mean to say with this comparison is that the viewpoint isn’t sexist, and I wouldn’t want to imply that, but it does draw an overly sharp distinction between genders.
I think that the right female singer could certainly do Rufus’s songs justice. I also think that the right straight man could do his songs justice. I can’t sing myself, but I’ve always imagined it to be more about feeling than gender.
January 11th, 2006 at 5:29 am
One of the songs I wanted Juliana to sing was “This Love Affair.” The line I had problems with was “…not that I don’t like cruising.” Someone give me a clue here, but the notion of cruising for a quickie is not a verb I think of for women. Juliana said, “no, women cruise.” I still found the verb problematic. But I guess that is my problem.
I wish these excellent posts above would be posted on my blog for the benefit of the participants in that forum. [Please join svp.]
To some of you, it seems obvious that anyone could sing any song by Rufus, but I don’t think it’s that easy. I’m writing this book and can’t presume to speak for everyone, so my idea was to have it hashed out on a public forum, and in my book, reflect the opinions that I hear.
My post on the blog was regarding GAY-SPECIFIC lyrics, not those that are universal or non-specific. For instance, I hear “The Art Teacher” as a song that Rufus happens to sing, but it is from the point of view of a woman, not a gay man. The line “I was just a girl then” to me, does not mean that Rufus thought of himself as a “girl” at that point in his life. It is a song from the point of view of a woman. The existence of this song perhaps answers my question: anyone can put on a persona and become whomever they choose. It’s just a song.
I asked the question as to whether only gay men could sing Rufus’s gay specific songs in all seriousness. I have not made up my mind one way or the other. I am interested in hearing people’s opinions.
I’m clear on one song: I don’t want to ever hear George W. Bush singing “Pretty Things.”
January 11th, 2006 at 5:36 am
I generally think of “cruising” as a verb used by gay men as well. I’ve never heard women using it, but that doesn’t mean they don’t. I do think “This Love Affair” is probably more difficult for women to sing than many of his other songs.
January 11th, 2006 at 5:48 am
Oh Gershwin…
I am also sorry if my post offended you. You may have misunderstood me, too.
Have you ever heard a Robert Goulet cover of a Beatle song?
I am all for EVERYONE covering Rufus in terms of business.
I want him to have all the money and success he deserves.
My post was speaking from a purely artistic point of view.
OK…Let me try to ammend what I said.
A very special person (either gender) could cover Rufus songs effectively.
But even aside from having the physical gift of a voice that could carry it off, that performer would have to be heartbreakingly sensitive and dripping with sex at the same time.
I just can’t think of anyone.
And so that’s why I think Rufus could sing the TV listings and I’d be in his power.
Thanks meshaped, for saying what I didn’t.
January 11th, 2006 at 7:12 am
I see the problem you have with “cruising”. It’s something that I would define as masculine, although I aknowledge that this sort of tagging is always reductive of reality… I personally would solve the problem in two ways. The first way, is by an agreement, between the audience and the performer, that the singer is playing a character, here, a gay man. So what the audience hears, is a woman’s voice telling a man’s story. The other way is to take the song as it is with it’s slight inadequacy, and then see what kind of interesting phenomena this glitch creates. So you would have Julianna singing about cruising and the unsuspecting audience learns with surprise that some woman like cruising too…
This brings to my mind the old memory of a sexy, madonna style, singer called Mitsou (whom Rufus admired, btw…) who sang a song called “Mademoiselle”. So you had this girl singing about her fascination for another lady, describing her minutely throughout the song. The intention was never to imply or make believe that she was lesbian or bisexual, it’s just that the songwriter had originally intended the song for a male singer. When Mitsou saw the song she loved it and decided to use it. In that case, there were no convention about the singer interpreting a male character. The confusion was maintained and it created an interesting, playful result.
[Quote by Berlioz: “My post on the blog was regarding GAY-SPECIFIC lyrics, not those that are universal or non-specific.”]
[Kaerenn continues:]
Perhaps there should be an agreement on what songs are gay specific, and to what extent. No doubt in my mind that Gay Messiah is a full fledged gay themed song because it deals with references from the gay cultures and with society’s acceptance. However, I find that most other songs more or less “happen” to be gay, they are situational. So, for instance if you have a song about a guy who falls in love with another guy, what you get when you deconstruct a little is a song about a guy, a song about a guy who falls in love, a song about the love for a guy, a song about love… and that’s how in the end, once you are passed the surprise of hearing a song about a gay relationship, you take from the song what you can relate to : the part about being a guy in love, the part about loving a guy, the part about love.
January 11th, 2006 at 9:46 am
I think we could maybe find some stronger words to respond to what you said, Berlioz. You appear to be expressing some sort of theory of the superiority or at least differentness of the gay sensibility. I would be the first to agree with anyone who said Rufus is among the greatest of popular songwriters and that his songs are often much more complex than others’. Are you suggesting that gay singers will not be able to sing great or subtle songs by straight writers? Should not Rufus attempt to capture his father’s or mother’s or Leonard Cohen’s sensibilty in their songs? I’m not gay and I sing the songs of Rufus and express them as well (or as badly) as I do those of k d lang or Jerome Kern or Gershwin or Ellington or Springsteen or Lennon or Rogers or Simon or Duritz or Morrison or Brel or Mitchell or anyone of any sex, sexual leaning or Nationality. I don’t find them more difficult because Rufus is gay.
Did I misunderstand the point you were making? I’d like to think so.
January 12th, 2006 at 4:05 am
OKAY…I keep thinking about this because I have been wondering for a long time why hardly anyone ever covers Rufus’ songs. Perhaps it’s not the gay-straight (or gender) thing at all, but just how utterly “Rufusy” the songs are.
Here’s one anyone could cover…even kids.
“Spotlight on Christmas.”
And what if a group were to take one of his songs and really change the way it’s done…sort of like the way NOFX covered “Vincent?” Then it wouldn’t matter as much how personal the lyrics are.
Anyhoo, I do like the question.
Could the people on the board who do cover Rufus songs please tell us how they pull it off? I’m really curious.
I’d like to hear Britney sing “Vibrate.”
January 12th, 2006 at 9:03 am
I think you have managed to express my thoughts better than i did.
January 12th, 2006 at 9:03 am
“Then I thought about some other situation of the “slap you in the face” variety, and it culminated into the song “Vicious World.” That little chorus part I actually ripped off slightly from a Berlioz piece.” (Quote by RW)
[Here Rufus drew a correlation between the lyric and perhaps an operatic libretto, but alas, his momentary reflection was too faint on the recording to transcribe.]
O Berlioz! He obviously is a fan…;)
*grins*
know which piece he’s talking about, per chance?
January 12th, 2006 at 3:28 pm
How very interesting that you are mentioning “This Love Affair” as one of the specifically problematic songs. Although he alludes to the image of a romantic love in this song, he is actually singing about his struggles with his personal life versus his professional celebrity life. It took some time and counseling for him to get his head together about that distinction. He loved the life of partying and hanging out with famous people, but it lead him down a path towards destruction. In the end, he decides to leave the seductive excessives behind (”So guess that I’m going, I guess that I am walking… Where? I don’t know….just away from this love affair.”).
I’m thinking that perhaps the “cruisin’” line and the “waltzing” line that follow it were not so literal in Rufus’ mind, yet they are being interpreted that way to the point of being stoppers. (No discussion with the soprano about “I don’t know why I’m watching all these white people dancing”?)
(And….I gather that “cruising” has nothing to do with using the cruise control in the car, huh?)
I’m kidding!!
January 12th, 2006 at 5:59 pm
Rufus Wainwright’s Songs Get a Woman’s Touch in NYC Cabaret Show, Dec. 2-10
I would like to comment on the idea of women covering Rufus’ songs, as I have just done so in my cabaret act (See thread: “My tribute to Rufus” for reference).
I was laughing when I read the post that said NO ONE but RUFUS should cover: blah, blah and blah–and I had done over half of those mentioned in the show.
I am going to say that it all depends on how the music is arranged, who the singer is, and whether their intepretation and belief in the material is strong enough to make the audience “buy” the song. I will give you set list at the end of the post.
First of all, some very common comments I received after the show from fans of Rufus were, “I could hear the words for the first time”,or “that’s what he says?” or “OH,THAT’S what that song means!”
The thing is, I don’t believe that the songs DON’T work when sang by anyone other than a gay male, rather that the songs take on a different meaning.
Just as a lyrical example, in “Beauty MArk”, the lyric goes, “I may not be so manly, but still I know you love me…”, etc. I was the only girl in a family with four brothers, so to me, that lyric was not only justified, but took on a wry and sarcastic tone.
My musical director also created arrangements (and of course, transpositions) that transformed Rufus’ songs, so that the meanings were not quite the same.
Think of Tori Amos singing “Angie”–NOT a song a female should be singing on paper, but totally works because SHE knows what she is singing about, and created an arrangement that is uniquely hers.
Here is the setlist for my act (which has been extended by the venue, and is running in Jan–details on thread!):
Oh What A world/ I don’t know what it is (medley)
Foolish Love
April Fools
Vibrate
The Art Teacher
This Love Affair
Hometown Waltz
Beauty Mark
Dinner At Eight
California
Tower of Learning
Cigarettes and Chocolate Milk
Poses (encore)
Just an FYI, the songs that have received the hugest and most unanimously positve reactions are Poses, Dinner at Eight, The Art Teacher,Vibrate and Tower of Learning.
January 12th, 2006 at 8:00 pm
The amazing Tony-Award winning Audra MacDonald has already covered some of Rufus’s songs in concert …
She has said in interviews, that she is a ‘gay man in a woman’s body’ … and now she’s married (to a male) and has a child….so go figure.
January 12th, 2006 at 10:45 pm
I’m thinking that “The Art Teacher” really holds the answer to my question. It’s a song from the point of view of a woman, but sung by a man. Many people took the line “I was just a girl then” to mean Rufus was a little effeminate gay boy calling himself a girl. But when we find out SHE married an “executive company head” it seems clear that this indeed was a woman.
So Rufus is singing a song woman’s song. That being said, there is an overlay of Rufus himself in the character.
Can you think of many instances of straight men singing songs originally written from a woman’s point of view? I’ve heard many gay men’s choruses do this which is invariably rather funny, or I guess, campy.
January 13th, 2006 at 1:57 am
Maybe the cross-gendering of songs could be compared to theatre. There are theatrical traditions all over the world of cross-gender casting, or all-female or all-male casts, and for those used to naturalistic casting they cause a little deracination. In western theatre anyway, they also acquire extra layers of significance from the perceived incongruity - as when all-women companies do ‘Taming of the Shrew’. This can happen (I think) when gay men sing songs ‘written from a woman’s point of view’. Is that just funny? Camp can be deadly serious as Sontag pointed out. But cross-gender casting - or singing -can also be less pointed, more a matter of ‘just’ taking on a role - the place The Art Teacher seems to end up. ‘I was just a girl then’ is certainly a phrase which allows the song to be both these things.
I can’ think of examples of straight men singing songs marked as written by women - I guess there are some depressingly obvious reasons for that.
jan
January 13th, 2006 at 4:47 am
I’m having trouble with “woman’s point of view” regarding songs. All I can think of are songs from musicals (like “I Feel Pretty”) that carry strong visual images since their intent is to portray a stereotypical caricature of a girl/woman.
Songs expressing the emotions surrounding unrequited love, infatuation, yearning, angst, etc., tap more universal themes that cross gender or sexuality lines. When Rufus talked about writing “The Art Teacher,” he talked about being physically attracted to a straight art teacher whom he met at the gym. His song tapped the universal emotions of having a crush on an older authority figure–and he most likely wrote the song from the perspective of a woman recalling her school days because he wanted to sing the song for this particular straight art teacher–and not offend him. When he met the art teacher, he immediately imagined how the young girls at the teacher’s school must have been attracted to him; he did not imagine gay infatuation, although that is certainly the bottom line when he sings this song–and the point he was hoping to make with the art teacher. At the concerts where he first began performing this song, he often prefaced the song by saying, “This song is about a young girl, a.k.a., Rufus Wainwright.” (He says it didn’t work….the art teacher apparently walked away after hearing the song, unimpressed.)
I’m wondering if “The Art Teacher” would be more easily covered by a female singer rather than another male singer….which puts an interesting twist on your original musings.
January 13th, 2006 at 7:06 am
I’ve always wanted to hear Paul McCartney sing “Natasha”, of course it covers quite a range and I’m not sure that he could pull it off these days.
As for all the others, well the possibilities are endless. Who can not imagine Ricky Skaggs or Garth Brooks singing “Hometown Waltz?”
One of my favorite CDs to find by accident in a cut-out bin is some Bluegrass “tribute” that has been recorded. So I’ve listened to bluegrass versions of Metallica, Jimi Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, etc.
In fact, that would be quite interesting, wouldn’t it? A bluegrass tribute to Rufus Wainwright. Yes . . . I like that idea.
January 13th, 2006 at 7:05 pm
Oooops #1:
I agree with kae’s post that rabid fans of Rufus Wainwright (that would be me) can become possessive of his versions and therefore may have trouble envisioning anyone else covering his stuff.
Oooops #2:
My first post was based on literal interpretations of his lyrics alone. I thought that was the question. I would love it if everyone was comfortable with the idea of a woman cruising…but not in the US, not yet.
Oooops #3:
Also I was only considering recorded covers, not live performances.
I wonder if it is more effective for cabaret singers (versus recording artists) to pull off covering Rufus songs because of the intimate setting and the opportunity for the performer to schmooze with the crowd? Rufus’ lyrics are highly crafted and integral to his songs. Sometimes, especially for those who are not used to hearing Rufus sing, his lyrics can get lost because of his unique pronunciations. As angela pointed out, people who come to her show are delighted to finally find out what the songs mean, and that is a big plus.
Also, I truly believe that some recording artists would not be comfortable singing the songs. So no matter whom I pick, they might not want to do it. My wish list would let the artists do his songs in their own styles. The worst thing would be someone trying to imitate Rufus because it can’t be done.
That being said, here is a list of people I think would be fun to hear doing Rufus covers:
Beverly Knight
Annie Lenox
kd lang
Bette Midler
Emmylou Harris
Imogen Heap
Fiona Apple
Joni Mitchell
Norah Jones
Cat Power
David Bowie
Bryan Ferry
Ruben Blades
Stephen Malkmus
Youssou N’Dour
Sufjan Stevens
Muse
Destroyer
NOFX
January 14th, 2006 at 5:53 am
I have to agree with ShadowWing’s and Kae’s statement about being wary of covers of Rufus’ work. (I’m not a “rabid” fan, however…..maybe just a tad possessed.) When I hear Rufus doing a cover of another artist’s work, I usually am smitten with his interpretation of a song. He doesn’t tend to alter a song so drastically that it becomes something other than what was written, but he seems to understand what another writer was thinking or hearing about a song, and he just amplifies what he understands. His covers of the following songs are so outstanding that I will associate them with Rufus from now on. (As Ben Folds remarked, “He just owns them…..he’s the real deal..”)
Across the Universe - Beatles
He Ain’t Heavy - B. Scott and B. Russell
Chelsea Hotel #2 -Cohen
Everybody Knows - Cohen
Instant Pleasure -Seth Swirsky
Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow - Carole King
What Can I Do?- Antony
Harvest - Neil Young
Careless Whispers - Wham
What Are you Doing New Year’s Eve - Frank Loesser
I Wonder What Became of Me - Harlold Arlen
Keep Cool Fool - James Price Johnson / Joseph Myrow
Complainte de la Butte
On the other hand, I can think of an example of a group who covered two Rufus songs and “made them their own.” I find the covers (”The Greek Song” and “Vibrate”) so deplorable that I think they could stop elevators and shopping carts worldwide. (I actually like some of the music that The Manhattan Transfer Station has done–just not in this case.)
Maybe covers are a tricky business.
January 17th, 2006 at 5:41 pm
I haven’t been able to keep up with all of this discussion, but Roger B, errr, Berlioz, was telling me about it, and I chimed in with the following, which he asked me to post here.
When it comes to “art songs” (a term which I detest, since it suggests that many of the great songs which I love more than anything in the world and think are of unequalled artistry are not actually art), the gender issue has intrigued me for a long time.
It has been quite acceptable since at least the mid-19th century for women to sing songs clearly intended for men to sing. Jenny Lind, the famous Swedish soprano, was known to have sung Schubert’s “Die Schöne Müllerin,” (The Beautiful Miller Maid), which is entirely from the voice of a young man (well, and a brook, too). Women have never hesitated to sing any number of songs that are very much from a man’s point of view, whether by Schubert, Schumann, Brahms, Ravel, etc.
On the other hand, Schumann’s song cycle “Frauenliebe und Leben,” (A woman’s life and loves), which is from the point of view of a woman from youth to old age, is never, ever sung by a man–at least, I have never heard of it having been. I have often thought that, in these days of Queer Theory, it would be something a male singer would want to do, just to shake things up.
Mark