Comments on: Quotation in Rufus Wainwright http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2006/01/26/quotation-in-rufus-wainwright/ Roger Bourland writes about music and life Mon, 8 Sep 2008 02:22:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.10 by: mick http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2006/01/26/quotation-in-rufus-wainwright/#comment-138 Tue, 31 Jan 2006 14:43:37 +0000 http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2006/01/26/quotation-in-rufus-wainwright/#comment-138 Maybe I'm hearing things ... but Memphis Skline - packed with references to Hallelujah (as in Lenny Cohen, not Handel). Especially the piano solo halfway through. Quite cute, really, with Rufus signalling what he's doing in the lyric. Maybe I’m hearing things … but Memphis Skline - packed with references to Hallelujah (as in Lenny Cohen, not Handel). Especially the piano solo halfway through. Quite cute, really, with Rufus signalling what he’s doing in the lyric.

]]> by: Roger Bourland http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2006/01/26/quotation-in-rufus-wainwright/#comment-137 Mon, 30 Jan 2006 05:45:48 +0000 http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2006/01/26/quotation-in-rufus-wainwright/#comment-137 TW: I've been to Medjugorje where millions of pilgrims swear to see the Virgin Mary in the clouds as they fry their eyes permanently. I truly understand "seeing/hearing what we want to see/hear." Rufus IS obsessed by Judy Garland. We can differ on what we hear and what we don't hear, but I hear a very clear countermelody of "somewhere over the rainbow." You do know he is recreating the Judy Garland Live in Carnegie Hall" this June don't you? A more debatable quote ID is the Poulenc reference at the opening of "The Money Song." As someone who played Poulenc's "Mouvement Perpetuelles" I hear the similarity clearly. I have no idea as to whether Rufus knows or has played that piece; my wager is that he has. The notion of influence is really an interesting one as sometimes we composers are aware explicitly that when we are quoting something, and sometimes we just are not. I wrote a piece once and only 20 years later did I realize that I ripped it off almost verbatim from Villa Lobos! George Harrison claimed to be oblivious to not realizing that he ripped off "She's So Fine" in "My Sweet Lord." Despite his protest, he lost. TW: I’ve been to Medjugorje where millions of pilgrims swear to see the Virgin Mary in the clouds as they fry their eyes permanently. I truly understand “seeing/hearing what we want to see/hear.” Rufus IS obsessed by Judy Garland. We can differ on what we hear and what we don’t hear, but I hear a very clear countermelody of “somewhere over the rainbow.” You do know he is recreating the Judy Garland Live in Carnegie Hall” this June don’t you?

A more debatable quote ID is the Poulenc reference at the opening of “The Money Song.” As someone who played Poulenc’s “Mouvement Perpetuelles” I hear the similarity clearly. I have no idea as to whether Rufus knows or has played that piece; my wager is that he has.

The notion of influence is really an interesting one as sometimes we composers are aware explicitly that when we are quoting something, and sometimes we just are not. I wrote a piece once and only 20 years later did I realize that I ripped it off almost verbatim from Villa Lobos! George Harrison claimed to be oblivious to not realizing that he ripped off “She’s So Fine” in “My Sweet Lord.” Despite his protest, he lost.

]]> by: twarner http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2006/01/26/quotation-in-rufus-wainwright/#comment-136 Mon, 30 Jan 2006 05:30:27 +0000 http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2006/01/26/quotation-in-rufus-wainwright/#comment-136 I just checked it out... maybe I'm missing something. Are you talking about those barely auidible little 'ding dings' in the way distant back ground? I'm not a musicologist, but what are the chances that that's just a coincidence? "Some" and "where" are an octave. And "over the rainbow" is just five notes in a row. Would, eventually, someone wrote those seven notes in a row thinking "wow... I'm creative!" and by pure coincidence, do the same thing? In literature, sometimes something isn't an allusion. It's just the same idea. Is the an analagous phenomenon in music? I just checked it out… maybe I’m missing something. Are you talking about those barely auidible little ‘ding dings’ in the way distant back ground?

I’m not a musicologist, but what are the chances that that’s just a coincidence?

“Some” and “where” are an octave. And “over the rainbow” is just five notes in a row. Would, eventually, someone wrote those seven notes in a row thinking “wow… I’m creative!” and by pure coincidence, do the same thing?

In literature, sometimes something isn’t an allusion. It’s just the same idea. Is the an analagous phenomenon in music?

]]> by: Roger Bourland http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2006/01/26/quotation-in-rufus-wainwright/#comment-132 Sun, 29 Jan 2006 06:03:41 +0000 http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2006/01/26/quotation-in-rufus-wainwright/#comment-132 It starts in the synthesizer around 1:52 in the background. The tune only covers "somewhere over the rainbow" and stops. It starts in the synthesizer around 1:52 in the background. The tune only covers “somewhere over the rainbow” and stops.

]]> by: twarner http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2006/01/26/quotation-in-rufus-wainwright/#comment-131 Sun, 29 Jan 2006 05:33:45 +0000 http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2006/01/26/quotation-in-rufus-wainwright/#comment-131 I apologize if you've covered this already, but what is the reference (musically, that is? Not lyrically?) in "Vicious World" to "Somewhere Over the Rainbow"? TFGW I apologize if you’ve covered this already, but what is the reference (musically, that is? Not lyrically?) in “Vicious World” to “Somewhere Over the Rainbow”?

TFGW

]]> by: Roger Bourland http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2006/01/26/quotation-in-rufus-wainwright/#comment-129 Sat, 28 Jan 2006 04:43:26 +0000 http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2006/01/26/quotation-in-rufus-wainwright/#comment-129 Rufus has not yet earned the stripes to be in the tradition of the American composer; the American songwriter -- yes. And a damned good one in my book. I once asked a doctoral candidate to name the great American tunesmiths of the 20th century. He was mute. I said: "exactly; they are Gershwin, Porter, Rodgers, Kern, and so on, but Barber, Rorem, and Ives are not really on that list as far as I'm concerned." Rufus is. Rufus has not yet earned the stripes to be in the tradition of the American composer; the American songwriter — yes. And a damned good one in my book. I once asked a doctoral candidate to name the great American tunesmiths of the 20th century. He was mute. I said: “exactly; they are Gershwin, Porter, Rodgers, Kern, and so on, but Barber, Rorem, and Ives are not really on that list as far as I’m concerned.” Rufus is.

]]> by: Rosa http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2006/01/26/quotation-in-rufus-wainwright/#comment-128 Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:05:53 +0000 http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2006/01/26/quotation-in-rufus-wainwright/#comment-128 As a singer-songwriter, stylistically, Wainwright behaves like a kid in a candy shop. Everything flows from a voice and the songwriting. The words are not particularly brilliant, just personal, witty, sarcastic, encumbered, and idealistic - to me. I can think that lyricist Bernie Taupin said so much more. The music elicits everything from Elton John to Elton in Clueless. This music is not, to my mind, music that is possible to parse in the context of the classical style. Is much of the use of quotation from everyone at Def Jam to Charles Ives to The Orb adding up in "the traditon of American Composers"? As a singer-songwriter, stylistically, Wainwright behaves like a kid in a candy shop. Everything flows from a voice and the songwriting. The words are not particularly brilliant, just personal, witty, sarcastic, encumbered, and idealistic - to me. I can think that lyricist Bernie Taupin said so much more. The music elicits everything from Elton John to Elton in Clueless.

This music is not, to my mind, music that is possible to parse in the context of the classical style. Is much of the use of quotation from everyone at Def Jam to Charles Ives to The Orb adding up in “the traditon of American Composers”?

]]> by: Rhapsody http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2006/01/26/quotation-in-rufus-wainwright/#comment-125 Fri, 27 Jan 2006 18:40:22 +0000 http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2006/01/26/quotation-in-rufus-wainwright/#comment-125 <p>"Between My Legs" Phantom of the Opera </p> “Between My Legs” Phantom of the Opera

]]> by: jan2 http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2006/01/26/quotation-in-rufus-wainwright/#comment-124 Fri, 27 Jan 2006 18:37:47 +0000 http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2006/01/26/quotation-in-rufus-wainwright/#comment-124 Agnus Dei - Oum Kalsoum (style of) Art Teacher - Philip Glass There are lots of 'style' quotes I guess, eg in Peach Trees, Gay Messiah - as well as more generally... This could be heard as pastiche (on which, in contemporary culture, Fredric Jameson wrote a useful piece) jan Agnus Dei - Oum Kalsoum (style of)
Art Teacher - Philip Glass

There are lots of ’style’ quotes I guess, eg in Peach Trees, Gay Messiah - as well as more generally… This could be heard as pastiche (on which, in contemporary culture, Fredric Jameson wrote a useful piece)

jan

]]> by: Rhapsody http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2006/01/26/quotation-in-rufus-wainwright/#comment-122 Fri, 27 Jan 2006 13:36:00 +0000 http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2006/01/26/quotation-in-rufus-wainwright/#comment-122 "Sally Ann" Immortal - Invisible, God Only Wise (brass accompaniment) This Love Affair - Force of Destiny, Verdi As in Happy - This Love Affair -Force of Detiny (Okay, that's cheating. :) ) “Sally Ann” Immortal - Invisible, God Only Wise (brass accompaniment)

This Love Affair - Force of Destiny, Verdi

As in Happy - This Love Affair -Force of Detiny (Okay, that’s cheating. :) )

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