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	<title>Comments on: Audition feedback &#8212; TMI?</title>
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	<link>http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2007/02/08/audition-feedback-tmi/</link>
	<description>Roger Bourland writes about music and life</description>
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		<title>By: Catalysts &#38; Connections - Evan Tobias &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A Music Education Mixtape V6</title>
		<link>http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2007/02/08/audition-feedback-tmi/comment-page-1/#comment-33363</link>
		<dc:creator>Catalysts &#38; Connections - Evan Tobias &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A Music Education Mixtape V6</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2007 00:23:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2007/02/08/audition-feedback-tmi/#comment-33363</guid>
		<description>[...] Track 4 - An interesting perspective and dialogue on audition feedback on Roger Bourland&#8217;s blog. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Track 4 &#8211; An interesting perspective and dialogue on audition feedback on Roger Bourland&#8217;s blog. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Wood</title>
		<link>http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2007/02/08/audition-feedback-tmi/comment-page-1/#comment-7916</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Wood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Feb 2007 16:35:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2007/02/08/audition-feedback-tmi/#comment-7916</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s interesting to me that this subject is so highly charged that even the comments can be potentially somewhat confrontational---and in re-reading mine I realize I was quite ambiguous.

What I meant when I made the American Idol remark was not that the audition/interview was like that sad spectacle of a show---but rather to suggest that the cultural milieu that countenances such a phenomenon might distort and skew the expectations of would-be performers (and by extension composers), and especially those of their sponsors (parents, friends, musical associates).

I&#039;ve been unable to watch even an entire episode of AI, it makes me cringe so.  Besides that, I don&#039;t like that histrionically hyper-melismatic pop style that I gather is favored.

In fact the whole issue of Fame gives me the creeps.  I had an otherwise rather wise woman, a &quot;sensitive&quot; and spiritualist, once express the hope that I would become famous.  When I asked why she more-or-less said (after showing a flash of incredulity at the very question) that then I would be more prosperous.  But it was clear to me that she had thought it self-evidently desirable.

Once in a lunchtime colloquium at UCLA, a visiting astronomer mentioned a problem in his field, something to do with molecular clouds.  The late George O. Abell, who did have a measure of fame much due to his having done an extensive Sky Survey at Palomar in his early years and in the process having his name associated with the catalogue of galaxies and planetary nebulae that resulted, asked Well what&#039;s the answer?  The visitor replied We don&#039;t know---If you can figure out the answer to that you&#039;ll be famous!  George: How famous?  and the person replied, Well, famous among the hundred or so workers in the field.

George said immediately Oh.  That&#039;s not famous enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s interesting to me that this subject is so highly charged that even the comments can be potentially somewhat confrontational&#8212;and in re-reading mine I realize I was quite ambiguous.</p>
<p>What I meant when I made the American Idol remark was not that the audition/interview was like that sad spectacle of a show&#8212;but rather to suggest that the cultural milieu that countenances such a phenomenon might distort and skew the expectations of would-be performers (and by extension composers), and especially those of their sponsors (parents, friends, musical associates).</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been unable to watch even an entire episode of AI, it makes me cringe so.  Besides that, I don&#8217;t like that histrionically hyper-melismatic pop style that I gather is favored.</p>
<p>In fact the whole issue of Fame gives me the creeps.  I had an otherwise rather wise woman, a &#8220;sensitive&#8221; and spiritualist, once express the hope that I would become famous.  When I asked why she more-or-less said (after showing a flash of incredulity at the very question) that then I would be more prosperous.  But it was clear to me that she had thought it self-evidently desirable.</p>
<p>Once in a lunchtime colloquium at UCLA, a visiting astronomer mentioned a problem in his field, something to do with molecular clouds.  The late George O. Abell, who did have a measure of fame much due to his having done an extensive Sky Survey at Palomar in his early years and in the process having his name associated with the catalogue of galaxies and planetary nebulae that resulted, asked Well what&#8217;s the answer?  The visitor replied We don&#8217;t know&#8212;If you can figure out the answer to that you&#8217;ll be famous!  George: How famous?  and the person replied, Well, famous among the hundred or so workers in the field.</p>
<p>George said immediately Oh.  That&#8217;s not famous enough.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Bourland</title>
		<link>http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2007/02/08/audition-feedback-tmi/comment-page-1/#comment-7893</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Bourland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Feb 2007 23:35:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2007/02/08/audition-feedback-tmi/#comment-7893</guid>
		<description>Brad, no, American Idol&#039;s approach to criticism is heartless and has no place in education. It is the modern day equivalent of throwing people to the lions. Audiences love to watch the agony. Yesterday someone mentioned that applicants should record themselves before audition. The recording, especially if they have never heard themselves, speaks volumes--that is, if they have an ear to begin with.

CS, heavens no! nothing insulting. It is so true that those that have previous training in music are at an advantage. But there are many self-motivated and self taught applicants that rise above their school&#039;s limitations. I am an example of that as I had no lessons on anything musical until after I left home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brad, no, American Idol&#8217;s approach to criticism is heartless and has no place in education. It is the modern day equivalent of throwing people to the lions. Audiences love to watch the agony. Yesterday someone mentioned that applicants should record themselves before audition. The recording, especially if they have never heard themselves, speaks volumes&#8211;that is, if they have an ear to begin with.</p>
<p>CS, heavens no! nothing insulting. It is so true that those that have previous training in music are at an advantage. But there are many self-motivated and self taught applicants that rise above their school&#8217;s limitations. I am an example of that as I had no lessons on anything musical until after I left home.</p>
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		<title>By: cs1966</title>
		<link>http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2007/02/08/audition-feedback-tmi/comment-page-1/#comment-7892</link>
		<dc:creator>cs1966</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Feb 2007 22:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2007/02/08/audition-feedback-tmi/#comment-7892</guid>
		<description>Roger -

First off that was VERY generous and extremely fair.  What my comment to an earlier post tried to communicate is that embarking on musical training is fraught with risks especially if you come from a family of non-musicians and a community indifferent to the arts. It can be difficult to find proper preparation.  

At the same time, as your letter points out, there are many young passionate aspiring musicians who have no clue what is required to meet the demands of a good conservatory/music school.  Your guidance in the letter was invaluable and I hope he or she thinks it over carefully and uses it wisely.

I hope my prior comment was not insulting to you.  My indictment is more with the state of music education in the US primary and secondary schools -- if you are not in an affluent school district and/or a community with a strong interest in music and other arts, even those showing musical talent will most likely be ill-prepared for the conservatory or other undergraduate music training.  

The good news is that you may have prevented that person from quitting music entirely or at least doubting himself and never attempting seriously to becoming an excellent musician.  At best, he or she will do the hard work and find a niche in music.  At worst, he or she may decide after some study and exploration that music will be an avocation rather than a vocation.  Heck, most of Charles Ives&#039;collegues at the insurance agency knew him for his original ideas in insurance policy rather than music composition!  

May you continue with your generous work without ever forgetting to take care of your own aspirations and needs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger -</p>
<p>First off that was VERY generous and extremely fair.  What my comment to an earlier post tried to communicate is that embarking on musical training is fraught with risks especially if you come from a family of non-musicians and a community indifferent to the arts. It can be difficult to find proper preparation.  </p>
<p>At the same time, as your letter points out, there are many young passionate aspiring musicians who have no clue what is required to meet the demands of a good conservatory/music school.  Your guidance in the letter was invaluable and I hope he or she thinks it over carefully and uses it wisely.</p>
<p>I hope my prior comment was not insulting to you.  My indictment is more with the state of music education in the US primary and secondary schools &#8212; if you are not in an affluent school district and/or a community with a strong interest in music and other arts, even those showing musical talent will most likely be ill-prepared for the conservatory or other undergraduate music training.  </p>
<p>The good news is that you may have prevented that person from quitting music entirely or at least doubting himself and never attempting seriously to becoming an excellent musician.  At best, he or she will do the hard work and find a niche in music.  At worst, he or she may decide after some study and exploration that music will be an avocation rather than a vocation.  Heck, most of Charles Ives&#8217;collegues at the insurance agency knew him for his original ideas in insurance policy rather than music composition!  </p>
<p>May you continue with your generous work without ever forgetting to take care of your own aspirations and needs.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Wood</title>
		<link>http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2007/02/08/audition-feedback-tmi/comment-page-1/#comment-7891</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Wood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Feb 2007 19:19:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2007/02/08/audition-feedback-tmi/#comment-7891</guid>
		<description>I wonder if it would be appropriate to record the audition?  I&#039;m sure for some it would invoke even more stage fright---but then at least one could send the candidate off with a record of what was really said, and of course retain one for such situations as you describe.

I wonder how much the American Idol phenomenon operates here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if it would be appropriate to record the audition?  I&#8217;m sure for some it would invoke even more stage fright&#8212;but then at least one could send the candidate off with a record of what was really said, and of course retain one for such situations as you describe.</p>
<p>I wonder how much the American Idol phenomenon operates here.</p>
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		<title>By: oboeinsight</title>
		<link>http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2007/02/08/audition-feedback-tmi/comment-page-1/#comment-7890</link>
		<dc:creator>oboeinsight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Feb 2007 17:53:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2007/02/08/audition-feedback-tmi/#comment-7890</guid>
		<description>What a gracious and thoughtful response ... and one I hope is read properly. It could happen, although I must admit I&#039;m doubtful. Sigh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a gracious and thoughtful response &#8230; and one I hope is read properly. It could happen, although I must admit I&#8217;m doubtful. Sigh.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Bourland</title>
		<link>http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2007/02/08/audition-feedback-tmi/comment-page-1/#comment-7877</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Bourland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2007 21:34:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2007/02/08/audition-feedback-tmi/#comment-7877</guid>
		<description>Thanks Cath! 

I presume you mean &#039;how is the k-stone.&#039; Well, it&#039;s either still sitting in my bladder waiting to terrorize me one last time, or I passed it without incident. I may have to get another CT scan to find out. But, no pain or unpleasantness now. Things are back to normal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Cath! </p>
<p>I presume you mean &#8216;how is the k-stone.&#8217; Well, it&#8217;s either still sitting in my bladder waiting to terrorize me one last time, or I passed it without incident. I may have to get another CT scan to find out. But, no pain or unpleasantness now. Things are back to normal.</p>
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		<title>By: cath</title>
		<link>http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2007/02/08/audition-feedback-tmi/comment-page-1/#comment-7876</link>
		<dc:creator>cath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2007 21:30:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rogerbourland.com/blog/2007/02/08/audition-feedback-tmi/#comment-7876</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re a good man, Roger.  You have explained as carefully, sensitively and intelligently as possible how and where Max needs to progress.  You can&#039;t do more than that.  Sometimes people only hear what they want to hear.

How are you, by the way?

Cath xx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re a good man, Roger.  You have explained as carefully, sensitively and intelligently as possible how and where Max needs to progress.  You can&#8217;t do more than that.  Sometimes people only hear what they want to hear.</p>
<p>How are you, by the way?</p>
<p>Cath xx</p>
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